Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Hi everyone.
My name is David Pustolski. I am a intellectual property and patent attorney with a small firm called Gerhardt Law in Summit, New Jersey.
That's just a small portion of my life. The biggest portion of my life that I take the most pride in is education and empowerment. I'm a professor at various universities and I also am the creator of this series, the Entrepreneurial Strategy Series.
I myself, I consider myself an entrepreneur, which is kind of why I decided to create this series. I didn't think there was enough education empowerment for entrepreneurs years ago, especially free education.
And so we put on this series Once a month, 12pm Eastern, the last Thursday of the month. Sometimes there are exceptions and we always feature people that can talk about the entrepreneurial journey. So from concept to exit and everything in between, it is also, we are recording it and so it does live on the Entrepreneurial Strategy Series YouTube site. And so you, you can, you can kind of watch it, you can watch past episodes at your leisure. And it's also a podcast and so we are recording and it is available in 22 different outlets for all of you that are first time attendees. If you have a particular topic that you want to see that we, if you look back at our previous topics and you see something that you want to talk about or whatever, have ideas for speakers, reach out to me and we can talk about it. If you think you want to be a speaker on the Entrepreneurial Strategy series on what we call the ESS series, then reach out to me as well and I'm happy to chat.
I'm super, super excited about today's topic.
I don't know why it's taken four years to have this topic.
It's something that I, as a, I as a IP attorney probably deal with a lot because as you know, entrepreneurs are sometimes confiding in us first before anything. Like at that concept stage, I haven't even told their wife, they haven't told their boyfriend, I haven't told their girlfriend. And they're coming to us and they're usually sharing with us the struggles that they are going through as entrepreneurs.
Lonely, no money. I have a thousand things to do and no help. Can't hire anyone. Stress, you know, marketing, fundraising, there's a lot going out. There's a lot going on out there. And so that I, so I don't know. So, so, so I'm, I'm sorry that it's taken four years to do this, but it's super excited to bring you the speakers we have today. I will introduce them and they. They will introduce themselves.
I would you want to give a shout out to Harvard University on something, because that's kind of where I met one of the speakers. We were both speaking about this topic last year through the Lehman Entrepreneurial Program.
And that was kind of the. That was really the straw that broke the camel back. Camel's back. I said, I, you know, we definitely have to, you know, kind of recreate the actual presentation that we did at Harvard, which was, again, for entrepreneurs, and on this exact topic. And so.
And so that's kind of what we're doing here today. And so it's a little bit of a little mini reunion for all of us. We're excited to bring it to a wider audience, and we really hope that you enjoy. We encourage questions, and so please chat them.
We likely will have some time at the end to go live if you want to ask them, but if we see them, you know, as they're coming in, we will definitely answer them as they go.
So without further ado, I want to introduce our first speaker, Dr. Kalisha Brooks.
She was on the panel with me at Harvard, and I'm super excited that she's here.
Kalisha, or Dr. Brooks, I can call her Kalisha. I don't know about the rest of you yet, but, Kalisha, put yourself away from you. Tell us who you are, you know, how you got here, what you're working on, and you know a little bit about yourself.
[00:04:29] Speaker B: Absolutely. Can you all see me? I feel like I'm in the Matrix.
[00:04:32] Speaker A: We can see you. Yeah, we can see.
[00:04:34] Speaker B: Okay. I don't know why.
[00:04:35] Speaker C: It's.
[00:04:35] Speaker B: It's kind of blurry on my.
[00:04:36] Speaker A: It is a little blurry. It is a little blurry for sure. Not too bad.
But it could be, maybe the Internet, that's all.
[00:04:44] Speaker B: Okay, well, hello, beautiful people.
I AM Kalisha Brooks. Dr. Kalisha Brooks. So excited to be here. David, thank you so much for the invite. We had such an amazing, connected, synergetic talk when we were at Harvard. So we were like, okay, we definitely have to continue to work together because it was just such a. A beautiful experience and how we just was, you know, vibing, bouncing off each other. So we absolutely love that. But a little bit about me and what I do. First and foremost, I'm a human being. I'm a lover of people. I've always put that out there. I just love, love, love people. I'm a lover of humanity. I tell people love is my religion. It informs everything that I do, all the work that I do. How I connect with my people, even the people that I work with. I don't call them clients or patients. I'm like, you're my people. We're all people in this journey.
And so I have a PhD in psychology.
I consider myself to be more of a holistic practitioner. I use a lot of not just psychological theories, but a lot of mind body practices. A lot of spirituality informs my work. A lot of my research in the past was in race based stress and trauma. And that's kind of the platform that I've built a lot of my work on. As a postdoc student at Vanderbilt University, I started to notice before it was trendy to talk about racial trauma. I was like, hey, there's something going on at the universities in America that we really need to talk about. And so that student started a lot of my work where I developed screeners for other clinicians to use when they worked with individuals of color and, you know, and different origins of sexuality. And so I built and developed that. From there I just started to deep, have a deep dive into healing. And so I worked with the George Floyd foundation with his family, creating healing spaces and communities.
I'm a social impact consultant for MTV Paramount and of course Harvard. I love the work that I do there with social impact entrepreneurs. I am a social impact entrepreneur myself with a lot of the, the models that I've created around healing and have developed that into an app form. So I would love to connect with you all as that's being built out like a new tech founder. I'm excited about that.
Yeah, so that's a little bit about me and who I am and the work that I do.
[00:07:07] Speaker A: Awesome. We're, we'll, we'll get into more with, with, with, with Dr. Brooks for sure.
And I'm going to our second speaker. Jennifer, where are you? Jennifer Russell, I don't see you, Dr. Jennifer Russell.
So Dr. Russell was also supposed, was supposed to be on the panel with us at Harvard. Unfortunately it didn't work out and we were crushed. But we're here now and that's what matters. And we got her and so we're excited for all of you to meet her and please introduce yourself.
[00:07:44] Speaker C: Thank you, David. So I am speaking to you from sunny Canada.
I live two hours from the border with Maine and I grew up here and I started my education in music, then went into science, became a family physician through the military.
So they paid my way through my studies. And then after that I ended up working in mental health and addictions for six years in a methadone clinic.
Then I decided to get back into more family medicine practice and did some hospitalist work. And then I decided to jump ship from family medicine and work for the government in public health because I was really interested in upstream prevention. I. All the patients that I saw, I always felt like, you know, there could have been more that could have been done to prevent whatever ailment they had. And So I spent 10 years in public health, and up until the pandemic, things were pretty good in that career space. But then when the pandemic hit front and center, obviously public health was the voice and the face of our response here in New Brunswick. So New Brunswick is a province of not even a million people. There's about 800,000 people here, and we're spread out over a large territory. It's not a very densely populated place.
So along the way, obviously, have learned a lot about mental health resilience. I do speak about resilience to groups. I have been mentored, too. I have been a mentor. The H2A program at Harvard has a satellite program here at University of New Brunswick.
So after 10 years of government and working in public health, I got to work even further upstream in academia now. So I'm the executive director at the Institute of Population Health here at the University of Brunswick and Fredericton, New Brunswick. I have two kids who are also students here at the University of New Brunswick. And so all the different hats that I wear, again, I used to be a clinician. I'm now in academia running this institute, hoping to influence government decisions around policy and legislation for population health, better population health outcomes. New Brunswick, Canada is not the poster child for the healthiest province to live in.
And I'm hoping to make some inroads on. On that during the pandemic.
[00:10:16] Speaker B: There's.
[00:10:16] Speaker C: There's one thing on my wall back here that came from the.
It's the US Consul General's Award for Public Service. Because we did work really closely with the government in Maine during the pandemic.
So I do feel connected to the US My kid's dad actually has a master's degree from Harvard, so there's that connection as well. We used to bring a lot of Harvard paraphern back for our kids. So they. They love the whole idea that I'm doing work with people from Harvard right now. So that's exciting.
And, yeah, so as a leader, I feel like I've learned. I got a lot of bruises along the way and got beat up in terms of, you know, obstacles and challenges, but definitely have landed on my feet but not without a lot of I guess, learning. And thank goodness I, I'm a lifelong learner and I'm super curious about all the things out there that can help.
Having the evidence based information that you can rely on and understanding that you don't always know what you don't know. And so when you come across the people that can impart that knowledge on you, I'm always so grateful to meet those people. So it's really nice to be here. David, thank you so much and thank you for your participation. Kalisha. It's really nice to work with you both.
[00:11:32] Speaker A: Awesome. Let's stick on you for a second.
I know I think you might have mentioned when the three of us were talking yesterday, I think you might have said to mention which is which a little crazy to me now that I heard your full kind of pivoting from job to job to job. I think you mentioned that you, that you didn't consider yourself an entrepreneur.
And so that's interesting to me because it sounds as if you, that you do have some entrepreneurial spirit in you just by the fact that you, you, you've pivoted in various different ways to find that, you know, you know, perfect position if you will for the time being.
But I know you were on the call from the very beginning and I know you heard some of the stories from our entrepreneurs. Most of the audience are entrepreneurs, established entrepreneurs, first time founders. You heard, you know, at least you know, six or seven people talk about stress and you know what to do if they can clone themselves 100%, you know, times five type of thing.
Just your, and, and, and Kalisha will come to you on this same question too. Any, any initial thoughts for, for, for people on, on just, just in general coping as a business owner, an entrepreneur, whether you consider yourself one or not. Just curious if you can share, share some knowledge.
[00:12:57] Speaker C: Yeah. So I, I think we, we can talk about all the different effects of stress on our bodies and, and our, in our minds and we have, there's always ways that we're trying to cope with, with the different types of stressors and you can either try to remove the stressor from your life or you can try to find a healthy way to cope. I have obviously been caught in the trap of having things that I couldn't remove from my life and you know, may or may not have chosen healthier, unhealthy ways to cope. So knowing that again those are some of the options, you either remove the stress or, or try to find a healthy coping mechanism. And if you aren't aware of what the coping mechanism, the healthy coping mechanisms are that you can replace with the unheal ones, then, then there's where the learning happens. And it helps to have a mentor or a life coach or a counselor and just listening to the conversations of what people stress and trying to connect in that isolation and feeling like you're solo and going it alone and pushing this big rock up this steep hill, I, I think being able to connect with other people either formally or informally. And, and as you, as somebody said, they can't talk to their, to their employees about this. And some, and some business owners can't talk amongst themselves because they might be competitors or you don't want to kind of let them know that you're struggling as well because you're trying to have that appearance of being strong and in control.
So I think when you break down again, what kind of stress are you dealing with? Is it something that you can manage in a healthier way than, than tuning in and tapping into all those different things and where you go to learn again? There's so many options and opportunities. I love all the stuff coming out of Harvard on Mind Body medicine. I love the stuff on coping with stress from Harvard. Like there's a blog article how to Handle Stress at Work. I mean, just the research alone. And I've, I've read some of the stuff that Kalisha's been involved in. And it again is all supported by science. And so it's not like a, it's not like a magical black box that there is evidence, there is research, there's science to back up the stuff from a Mind body medicine perspective. And so, and some of the books that I've read that kind of highlight some of this stuff as well. One of the books is called when the Body says no by Gabor Mate. Another one is called the Body Keeps Score from Bessel Van Der Kolk. Another one is called 10% happier by Dan Harris. And so some of these things, when you're delving into them, there's, there's some really good nuggets that you can latch onto that fit with your lifestyle and your personality. Because we all have different places we're coming from in terms of how we were raised and what tools are in our toolbox already, from our culture, from our religion, and from our generation. So somebody was talking about guilt and trying to carry these loads and the layers around. Where does that guilt come from? And women versus men in terms of taking on those different pieces of responsibility and obligation. And where is our ability to set good boundaries and delegate or say no? And where do you get that voice to look after yourself and put your own oxygen mask on first?
So that's a broad answer. And then I feel like we're going to be able to dive in really deeper and specific on some those things.
[00:16:09] Speaker A: Yeah, we definitely will. By the way, there was some chat if, if you, if you can, you know, maybe just chat those three book titles if you, if you have the time.
[00:16:18] Speaker C: Sure, yeah, I can. Absolutely.
[00:16:19] Speaker A: That would be great. And so, Kalisha, what, what do you think is you, you're. You're.
Again, I know you consider yourself an entrepreneur now. You know, you're, you know, with, you know, a tech entrepreneur with your new app. But, but even if you didn't, what, what, what are your thoughts on just coping as an entrepreneur?
[00:16:43] Speaker B: Yeah, so I like to take a step back when it comes to coping. I, I love to be more of a proactive than reactive, meaning taking the vitamins before you have to take the medication. A lot of times when we're in a place of coping, we've already. We're in the deep.
Right. And so even those of us that are already in businesses and practices and things we believe that will generate income or things that we believe brings us a sense of passion. I always encourage people to check in with themselves to see first. I think we talked about this, David. We don't always believe in balance, nor am I an advocator of the grind culture. I believe in alignment because I believe that when you are in a line, when you are aligned with the things you've been called and created to do, then things kind of flow, even your challenges. Believe Jennifer said it like, I can learn from this. I can grow from this. I can expand in this place. So when you come to a place of alignment, meaning first you have to check in with you.
Is this something that brings me passion that I'm doing? Is this something that authentically aligns with my values, the vision that I have for myself in my life?
Because if not, the world is very noisy, it's busy, there's so many, oh, my light's gonna keep going off.
There's so many talking heads.
Hold on.
Okay. There's so many talking heads that's telling you this is how you make money. This is the next new thing, especially with all the AI. I think we mentioned social media before, you know, so there's always a pool at what you should be doing, how you should be doing it, Even as a social Impact entrepreneur and all of us that are in this space, there's always a way that someone else is telling you how to do you.
And I believe that in of itself causes a lot of stress, a lot of anxiety, a lot of depression. The percentage of those that are entrepreneurs that endorse depression is like in the 70 and 80% space, you know, is this a quality of life that I'm living?
So first and foremost is get in aligned with what your values are, right? Don't just do stuff to make money. All money is not good money. You know, all money cannot bring you a sense of peace and rest. And I'm a mother as well, and that's something that I value, being a mother and protecting my space as a mother. I don't want to just grind, grind, grind, hustle, hustle, hustle, just to call myself an entrepreneur and say I have the titles and the degrees and the money and all of these things. So first and foremost is getting aligned in what you feel you've been called and created to do.
Next to that is simple. Making sure that what I call C S E E, are you seeing correctly, meaning are you just doing the bare minimum of sleeping, eating, exercising, that is fuel for the gas tank. Like if there's nothing in there, and I believe you mentioned it too, Jennifer, like securing your own oxygen mask, if there's nothing in there, the car is not moving. I don't care how nice, shiny, beautiful and pretty it is, if, if it's nothing in there, it's not moving.
So getting real simple with how you're taking care of your, yourself and your being. And we can circle back because I do have a story that, that informs why I show up in the world the way that I do. And it's a story of my grandmother that I watched throughout my life be an activist, a humanitarian, a director of a homeless shelter. She fed the whole community. You know, there was never a dull moment in her home. She always just everyone was in her home. And she modeled how to show up and take care of everybody else but herself.
And she died at a very young age from her second brain aneurysm.
Right. And so we do have stories of people who literally work themselves to death or work themselves into illness, or work themselves into depression, work themselves into anxiety, work themselves out of a quality of life.
So I again, I'm just a believer in taking the vitamin before the medication, being proactive and not always reactive.
Coping is not a healthy mechanism.
You're, you're waiting. Water.
Eventually you'll get tired you'll get exhausted. And what we see, sinking.
So learning how to ride the waves.
[00:21:14] Speaker A: I wanna, I wanna, I wanna stay on you because there's a few things I want to break down there.
And there was a, There was. Someone had made a comment in the networking session and Jennifer commented on. There's a lot out there, right? There's so much out there. What do I listen to?
I like, do I do. Do I go full on with Kalisha? You know, do I have Jennifer on the side? Like, what do I do? Like, do I.
How do I learn the skills?
Or I should say, how do I find the skills to learn first? There's just, there's noise. And so maybe any, any tips on how to kind of break through the noise?
And I guess possibly the moral of the story is, is that everybody's breakthrough, the noise is different. But, but how do I find what my breakthrough noise is? You know, like, how do I find my path exactly when there's so much stuff out there to, to, to. To hear and read and see and everything like that.
[00:22:22] Speaker B: I can jump in. Jennifer.
[00:22:23] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:22:23] Speaker A: Please. It's for you.
[00:22:24] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:22:25] Speaker B: Okay.
That's why I love. And we all talked about it.
Mind, body connection, meditation, mindfulness. And I am obsessed with, and I'll put it in the chat too, Dr. Joe Dispenza. Anybody have heard of him? I am absolutely obsessed with his work on science, neuroscience, neuroplasticity, all the many things.
Because with, with creating a, a practice of mindfulness and meditation, you're able to get enough clarity to kind of see what things resonate with you.
You know, because you could be scrolling through YouTube, you could scroll through all the. Again, all the noise and things, you know, again you go from laughing to crying, to joking, to getting serious, to being angry. All of these emotions, it desensitize us. It, like, starts to burn our neurons, you know, it starts to burn us. And before we know, we don't know what's our voice, somebody else's voice, the critical voice in our head, our mom's voice, dad's voice, society's voice, the culture's voice.
And a lot of, again, things have been normalized that are dysfunctional.
So when we can take time to get enough clarity to see what resonates with me, right? Like, oh, okay, I really have again, finding out what, what inspires you, your values, right? What are your values? Do things that align with your values, but first you have to know what your values are. This is the work.
And if we don't do the work, the Culture will define the work for us.
So the work looks like taking time to lean into you to find out what. What is it that I really want? What is it that. How do I want to feel? How do I want to show up in the world? What is it that I want to connect with? Do I want more meaningful experiences in my work? Do I want to generate more income? For what? Freedom? Not necessarily just to have more money, but to be free.
So sitting with yourself to really answer some of those questions, and then that takes you down the path of like, oh, other things are unraveling. Oh, now this resonates with me, this person connecting. Oh, okay. I found a path that, that feels good. And then when we need to pivot, we have the clarity to pivot.
[00:24:41] Speaker A: Yeah, Right on. Right on.
Jennifer, did you want to comment on that? I think if you could, it would be great.
[00:24:48] Speaker C: Yeah.
So as, as Kalisha said, sometimes you need a jumping off point. You know, where do you start?
And, and there are many, many different places to start. You can pick one. I, I love the life wheel idea where you sort of look at your life in this pie chart and on a scale of 1 to 10, you rate it, and then that kind of gives you a, literally a picture of where it is you can start. So if, if parts of your Life are a 10 out of 10, don't need to touch those part of your Life is a 5 out of 10 or a 2 out of 10. Oh, maybe start terms of trying to look at where you want to start and what, what the potential solutions are to address whatever it is in those parts of your life.
And because I think when everything is ball together, all you know is, well, I don't feel good or I don't like the situation. Well, which parts of it can you unpack to say, well, this is the part that I can work on and I can actually address this part.
And so that's when you know, if, if, if that time that you can give how you want to deconstruct the parts that you can work on. Because again, when it's all one big ball together and it's just awful, it's just yucky. Then again, how do you tease out the pieces? Well, no, actually, these pieces are really good. These pieces are so, so these pieces are really not good. So, and, and what do you have the time and energy? What resources do you have access to? Because I think one, the issue with people who are entrepreneurs and people who are very driven, you know, can you ask for help? Are you very stoic? Are you very stubborn?
So can you ask for help? And number two, do you know where to go to ask for help? What are the resources available to you that are free, which are the ones that are paid for by your. Whatever coverage you have? And if you're thinking at the individual level for yourself, then you might also be thinking at the organizational level for your employees. What kind of supports are you modeling in terms of. If you know that you need these types of supports? Are those the same types of supports that you're able to set up from a policy perspective in your organization? So not just looking at the individual, but actually modeling that behavior by making sure that the supports that everybody needs are accessible?
[00:27:01] Speaker A: Yeah, I think. I think that's. Those are all excellent points. And. Because I think the one pervasive quality for an entrepreneur, and we heard it, is that they believe that they can do it themselves.
And it's all. And from, from just from being in the kind of innovation industry, it's the ones. It's the entrepreneurs that kind of give up a little bit of themselves. Like, I know I, yeah, I can do it all, but I know that person can do it better. I know that person can do it a little bit. You know, a cleaner, whatever, whatever it is. It's those people that. I think that.
I think it's exactly what you said. Those people that have the courage and the strength to seek help, you know, whether it's mental health or, you know, accounting, whatever it is, that, that. So, so to all, speaking to all the entrepreneurs that are listening to this, that's like step number one, right? Having that, you know, brave confidence.
I don't know. I don't know what you call it. To ask for help, Right? So, so, so on that topic, Kalisha, do you think, like, do you think that is something that people can do on their own or should. Or can they start. Can they, like, read one of the books that you all recommended? Like, is that enough to kind of come up with a good, you know, coping mechanism or. Or not?
[00:28:30] Speaker B: I think it's a great launch pad. I think that a lot of the, you know, the things we recommended, Jennifer, I love the way your brain works, you know, where she's like, you know, in the, you know, the values, will and the emo, you know, like, the concrete things.
I like to call it having roots and wings, you know, founding. Finding things that can ground you. And that's. That's my vibe. Like, I'm like, okay, how do we ground ourselves? Find that, that water source to be able to Grow and then being able to from that place, like, okay, now what are the actual tangible resources? How do I get this thing moving? What does this look like for me? And even with.
And I'll quickly touch on, like a model I developed for healing, I think we can use it for entrepreneurship as well. And it's called Fit Care. F, I, T, C, A, R, E. And you made mention of one of the. The letters in there, Jennifer, is access to resources. So Fit Care is you look at first the F, your family dynamics, your family history, because that informs a lot of who you are and how you navigate this world. I. Your just intersects of identity, how the culture in the world looks at you now and how you experience it. And then t looking at any forms of trauma history, sometimes even as entrepreneurs. You said it again, Jennifer. What type of personality are you showing up as?
Right? Because again, all of our wounds, all of our challenges, it bleeds into everything that we do. So if we're not doing the work, getting the help, creating healing spaces, we're going to recreate whatever scenarios we had in family dynamics, in our business dynamics, in our partnerships, in our relationships with our kids.
Right? So fit Understanding, family intersects of identity and your trauma history. And then we go into the actual resources, see what type of community is available, what culture are you in? What exists there for you? A, the access to the resources. Right. What does that look like? Do you have access? Do you need advocacy there? And then R, which is my favorite part, is how do we now start to rewire and rewrite our stories and our narratives and also our mental modalities. Right. Because that's very important too.
And then the E, just overall education, what type of education do we need in order to be successful? That's through the books, that's through the podcast, that's through the workshops, and, you know, the different conversations. Mentors. How do I now get the education that I need? And that's the biggest investment that you can make into yourself.
[00:31:03] Speaker A: Love that. Jennifer, you want to add to that a little bit?
You're off mute.
[00:31:10] Speaker C: Okay. Yeah, I love the rewiring part. That speaks to the neuroplasticity of, you know, when you build new habits and whatnot.
One of the. One of the courses I was able to take, I think it's an American company, it's called Leadership Management Institute. And that's where I took a personal leadership course that really helped break down the different areas of. Of my life and professional life and personal life to be able to achieve the go of improving in the different areas. So I like the word alignment as well, because it just seems like the more your life is aligned, the less stress there is that you need the unhealthy coping mechanisms for. And then coming back to cost, not price in terms of what you have to pay to get help, but the cost of either not changing or continuing the habits that seem to be not really helping. They might be helping you get ahead, but they're not sustainable. And so that whole piece around, delegating and giving up that bit of control and somebody might be able to do it better, they might be able to do it differently, they might not be able to do it exactly the way you do it, but if you don't let some of those pieces go, then that sustainability piece. Because part of resilience is not just about being strong. Resilience is also being about recharging and when to pause and when to regroup and recharge and re energize and take a break.
And so if you don't have that person you can delegate to, then when can you ever switch off? I, I do remember a time in my career where I was carrying my phone around 247 and I remember the, the first time I took it and actually was on vacation and I, I put it in the hotel room safe and I locked it there and it was like, oh my God, what have I done?
And, but that exercise proved to me that, you know what, there is somebody else out there who can do your work while you're not there. And if you don't let that go, how do you even build that? You know those people who like, if you get hit by a bus tomorrow, who's taking over for you? Can they fill in? And in the military they teach redundancy. You know, if I was sent on a tour, it would be, you know, a six month tour. And then you have your decompression afterwards, you have your three week vacation in the middle and then you're not allowed to go on tour for another 18 months. And during the pandemic, I basically was on four tours back to back with no decompression and no so, you know, 135 press conferences in a row, basically with no backup, with no second in command to come in and relieve the work that I was doing. And I literally again was not able to take my phone and put it somewhere where I couldn't be reached. And it wasn't until I had a car accident that the universe said, well, if you're not going to take a break, we'll we'll put you on a timeout and see how that goes.
And then the same thing when I went back to the same stressors after the car accident. And my body again said, no, you're on another timeout. You're diagnosed with colitis now. You're going to be on the couch on steroids for five months. And then I went back again and my body again said, nope, you're still on a timeout. You have shingles now. And so I had a lot of time to think about all of the things that, you know, what you do need to do to stay healthy and move forward in a way that is going to be sustainable in the long term. So hard, hard lessons. But again, that's why, that's why I recommended the books that I recommended.
[00:34:36] Speaker A: Yeah, life definitely has a tendency to smack you in the face just when you think you know exactly how it's supposed to go. For sure, we've, yeah, we danced around this a little bit. But maybe it's time to talk about like, work, life, balance, what that means. I personally, I am, I say that, you know, my life is my work, work is my life. But I'm okay with that. Like, I feel like I've like, come to terms with it. It's okay to like, you know, take the, this is just me. It's okay for me to take vacation in Hawaii and, and, you know, still do some work. It works for me. It's my way of coping with everything that the two of you are talking about. But it may not be for everyone. So work, life, balance, what are your thoughts on that again?
Yeah, I'm just, just curious what the two of you think we can start with. We can start with Kalisha first.
[00:35:39] Speaker B: Jennifer, thank you so much for sharing and being that, that conduit of wisdom. I know you had to learn the hard way, but we are partakers of, of what you had to learn. So, and, and the honor that you have found your wisdom, you slowed down and you're listening to your body.
So thank you for sharing that.
And David, we've had this conversation about balance. Right.
I too am not a fan of the word balance. I believe that it just creates impossible guidelines on what life should look like. And a lot of people try to hold very tightly to I gotta balance this, I gotta balance that I can't do. But I understand, we understand the principle behind it all. Like, yes, you shouldn't always take work home with you or you shouldn't always, you know, you shouldn't, you should take your Vacation days. You should take breaks. As an entrepreneur, you know, you can't always be on. You need to be off. And Jennifer, oh my gosh, you were reading me as well, talking about 2020. That's when I first started to feel my own sense of burnout. I'm like, because the intersects of my identity, like, you know, being in mental health and an activist, it was like, oh, my God, I was always on. I was like on panels with the Senate. And I'm like, why? I don't even like politics. I don't even like you all. Like, why am I here?
What am I talking about? Right?
So it's just, it was, it was everything and it was all gas, no breaks, because we got to show up. We're called for such a time as this, right? And so I understand when it comes to like, no, this isn't what I've been called to do. So, no, I'm not doing it. But to answer your question, David, again, I am a fan of aligned. And it sounds like what you describe for your life and what works for you aligns with your values in life. You're like, you know what?
My life is work. My work is life. I can vacation and I can answer emails and I can take a break and same.
You know, I love to have virtual and remote work because I can be in LA this week and New York and Boston the next. Right? And in the midst of it, I'm taking breaks and doing this and doing that for others that may need a little more routine and structure that were balanced may work a little bit better for them them. But what I see it as is again, is this aligning with what how I wanted to live my life. And then the word boundaries, how am I now boundarying? Right?
How much I do this? Because, David, I'm pretty sure that your husband and child is like, okay, okay, now we need you here. Right? And so that conversation may have to get a little. Okay, I'll pick that up tomorrow.
[00:38:22] Speaker A: You're anxiously waiting for me to finish, just FYI.
[00:38:25] Speaker B: Exactly, exactly, exactly. So it's like, oh, David, I want to talk to you after this. You're like, oh, you know what? Now it's family time. That's a boundary. So it's, it's also realizing what are boundaries for you that works for you. Your lifestyle and your family and how you want to show up in the world. So I, you know, when it comes to, to balancing looking at again, how do I want to experience where I am right now?
What do I want to experience A little more of, is it freedom? Is it family time? Is it more restricted, eating better, finding more of a routine? And now how am I creating boundaries and protecting those spaces for myself? What does that rhythm, and that's another word I love using. What does the rhythm of my life look like?
I love rhythm. I love, you know, flow.
I can get a little hippie ish. So, you know, that's my side of the world.
[00:39:19] Speaker A: Awesome. Jennifer, work, life, balance, what does that mean to you?
[00:39:24] Speaker C: Well, I agree with Kalisha that, you know, what drives us in that way would be our values. But I think as entrepreneurs, I mean, who's keeping the lights on, what bills need to be paid, which employees need to be paid? And obviously, if you can't take your foot off the gas, because those are the things that need to happen and you just have to keep going, it would be nice to know that when you can take your foot off the gas fast that you would. That you don't just keep going just because you can and you think you need to do more.
But the other thing about that is if your flow, if your energy is derived from adrenaline and keeping your foot on the gas is kind of what keeps. You only have one. You only have one.
It's either on or it's either off. And so even some of the things you might learn about how to deal with stress and how to cope. I remember taking a yoga class class, because some yoga is the thing to do. There's evidence shows yoga is a good thing to do. And I actually am now a yoga teacher trainer. But at that time, I didn't know anything about different kinds of yoga. I just know yoga is a good thing for relaxation and stress.
But guess what? If you're somebody who thrives on adrenaline and you go to a yoga class first thing in the morning and you're so relaxed for the rest of the day was not very productive. So kind of matching what can you do when you can do it? And I remember a time in my life where I had an enormous amount of support. I was able to work part time. I was able to be there for my kids. I was able to be there for the community. I was able. And if you could do that, would you do that? Would you feel guilty if you did that? Would you feel like you had to justify yourself? I remember somebody coming up to me and saying, oh, what a cushy lifestyle you have, as opposed to commending, oh, good for you, that you could set up these supports and have this balanced life and. And good for you like.
So again, that whole, you know, workaholism in the military, I saw a lot of workaholism where working yourself to death was a coping, was in and of itself a coping mechanism. And so yeah, teasing those things apart and just being aware that yeah, there's, there's, there's different nuances and different, different strategies that can work for you, but it's not, it's not necessarily something that you can't experiment with.
Just be aware that there's like, like match your, your needs for, for being able to take your foot off the gas and what, what does work for your family, for your business and, and for your health.
[00:41:51] Speaker A: Wait, so, so I want to make sure I heard that correctly. So wait, so, so, so you start. So you did yoga and now you want to be a yoga instructor?
[00:41:59] Speaker C: No, I am a yoga instructor.
[00:42:01] Speaker A: Instructor.
[00:42:05] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. So I, I, I totally believe in, in, in all of that and, and, and knowing and at the time it was after my car accident so I still had all this hip and knee pain. So I couldn't even do, not hip, sorry, hip and back pain. I couldn't even do all the different poses and so I had to learn all of the alternate poses for everything because yoga is, can be intimidating if you don't know how to do all these poses or hold them correctly and you're sitting in front of a mirror for this 200 hours. It's 200 hour course and it's in a room, teeny tiny room with floor to ceiling mirrors. So you're, you're really getting a.
What's going on?
[00:42:39] Speaker A: Yeah, the reason why I wanted to come back to the yoga there was an interesting somebody I love the question they posed, it was Jennifer Clark said please share everyone. What do you do for fun?
I love that.
I think that's really important. So other than yoga, anything that you do for fun? Jennifer.
[00:42:58] Speaker C: Oh yeah, I'm in a book club. I love reading, I love hiking. I am a musician so my first career before medicine was music.
So I am a jazz singer songwriter. I play with a big band that sounds like World War II, you know, Glenn Miller style jazz. And I have two CDs on Spotify.
[00:43:19] Speaker B: The Layers. Jennifer oh my gosh.
[00:43:24] Speaker A: I love it, I love it.
[00:43:25] Speaker C: One is called Triple Step and one is called Double Kiss. And I used to get a lot of gigs for the swing dance club here in Fredericton. Now I do fundraisers and yeah, I, I raise money for Second Stage Housing organization that provides housing for women and children who are victims of Domestic violence. So yeah, that's what I do for fun. And I love to travel. I've been going to a lot of concerts and yeah, I have some, some traveling friends. So I, I've been able to do that and I, and, and in fact, so that course that I took called from the Leadership Management Institute where you track your personal goals and your professional goals. One of my personal goals was to take a vacation because I couldn't make myself go on vacation and I almost failed the course because I couldn't book a vacation. But that was 2018 and I did end up booking a vacation, so I ended up booking two. I went to Kripalu which is three hours west of Boston. That's the place where I did my first yoga retreat.
A lot of mindfulness, a lot of meditation.
And then the second trip I booked was a mother daughter trip to Greece.
And yeah, but, but I, I, I was, I couldn't do it. I had to be really pushed to do that.
[00:44:40] Speaker A: Wow, Clisha, what do you do for fun?
[00:44:44] Speaker B: I love that Jennifer and I am in alignment with that. I love jazz music that is like my jazz. I will travel. I have really good friends that are professional musicians that, it's my study music when I was in college. It's my meditation music. Like I often things jazz I absolutely love. So I would love to get your CDs and just connect on that.
[00:45:04] Speaker C: Surely like that.
[00:45:05] Speaker B: I love it.
Jazz. And somebody asked me a while ago, it's like I'm in Cincinnati, Ohio currently. It was like what is the favorite, your favorite place to go to in Cincinnati, Ohio? And I said the airport.
Because I love traveling. I do, I love traveling. That is my form of self care.
You know, being not from Cincinnati originally, my, my friends and family, my support systems, they're all over. So I just love taking time to go visit.
In two weeks I'll be in Italy. I'm excited about that. You know, so traveling is, is my jazz. Being with my daughter, I have a 12 year old tween. So that's fun.
I'm having a lot of fun figuring her out.
So yeah, so just being with good humans, I love good, meaningful, connected conversations. It does something to my heart.
So when I travel I don't like to just go as a tourist. I love engaging the culture, I love engaging the people, the language.
Show me something I've never seen before. I want to meet people that just expand my heart. So love all of that. So yeah, traveling, connecting with good humans, eating good food, listening to good music.
[00:46:15] Speaker A: I echo all of that. I do have one more thing that I do for fun and most people don't know this about me. Me, I am a reality TV junkie. It doesn't even matter what it is, whether it's real housewives, drag queens, like, people, girl fighting, I don't give a. I just love reality tv. It's just, just enough to just, just get into it. And, and it's probably why I have a kind of drama. There's a lot of drama. And so it kind of, you know, reinforces that. I just don't need that in my life, in my own personal life. I could just watch it, you know, drama. But yeah, I, I, I, but just so that, you know, Jennifer sent, I think Dominique, who works with Jennifer sent her her music link. So we're all. Thank you, thank you for that.
The, we'll switch gears a little bit. I mean, we, I, I, I, let's talk about mistakes that people make.
I mean, we, we've kind of, we've also, yes, we've talked about a lot of what people should be doing, but is there anything more that you can add?
Any kind of mistakes you've seen people, entrepreneurs, companies make that. There's a few comments also in the thing, like, I have no money, how do I hire people, blah, blah, blah. Like just in general, not that that's a mistake, but like just in general things that you've seen that, you know, people really probably should have done it differently and maybe you can, you can kind of share some stories there.
What do you think, Jennifer? We'll start with you.
[00:47:54] Speaker C: Well, actually, one of my closest friends is an entrepreneur and she's a mom and they travel a lot for their work. And, and I guess this is somebody who's trying to do everything right. This is somebody who has all the check boxes and it's still hard, you know, it's still hard in terms of support for being a mom. It's still hard for support to get time for her, to do stuff for herself, for her health. So I guess, I guess the reality is, yeah, we can know all this stuff and learn all the things and get all the check boxes and still have struggles.
And so what happens when you have to get up again and again and again and maintain that confidence and maintain that, that, you know, hope for the future, that it is going to get better. And I think she, she, she, she's one of my biggest fans, but I'm one of her biggest fans. And I remember one time I was going through a tough time. This was before the pandemic. And she, yeah, she watched me go through my divorce and she brought me this mug one day and it says, excuse my language. Are we allowed to use. Are we allowed to use F bombs in this platform? So the mug is a giant mug.
[00:49:05] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. Say it one more time. Say one more time.
[00:49:07] Speaker C: The mug that she brought me, this giant mug, which I still use. It's called Strong As.
So you know this. The social connections, like sometimes again, you've gone against the wall, you've done all the right things, and you just need someone to make you laugh or smile in your network. Like, you got to have some, some friends that are on a really bad day that, like, I have, I, I don't have a Rolodex. Those don't exist anymore. But, but I have about three or four friends that if I'm having a really bad day and I, I can't get in to see my counselor or I, I just, I'm driving somewhere and I just want to scream.
It's almost like a little lifeline. You got to have those little lifelines when you, you've done all the right things, there's nothing else you can do. You took your mental health day that you could, you stayed in bed if you could, and you, you did all the other things. And sometimes you can't because you have kids you have to drive around and do stuff for, or they're sick or you're sick. I remember one of the other things when I worked part time, it was I chose to work part time because my kids were always getting sick. And then I was getting sick. And back then I was seeing patients as a civilian in the military. And if I didn't show up for work, that meant that those patients didn't get seen for six more weeks. And I hated canceling a day so I would drag myself into work sick. And so when I started working part time, it was really protect my health, but also protect my patients from having to wait six weeks for the next appointment if I had to take a day off. So. Yeah, does that. Was that helpful? I don't even know.
[00:50:33] Speaker A: Yes, that was. That was great.
Yeah, I echo what Kalisha said. I love the way your head thinks, so that's great, for sure. Thank you. Kalisha, what do you think?
[00:50:49] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:50:52] Speaker B: Entrepreneurship is hard.
It's like no way to get around that. It's. It's tough, it's challenging. It can feel very isolated and lonely.
I have a really good friend as well, lives in Nashville running a multi million dollar business and her Bill, her. Her business keeps scaling and she keeps getting more miserable, right?
As Biggie Small said, more money, more problems.
You know, more money, more problems. And. And so just figuring out, you know, one of the things that I learned, I wish I would have learned sooner was mentorship. And that's why I love being at Harvard, sitting on, you know, the boards and the panels and the groups of just.
You don't have to reinvent the wheel. If there's some wisdom that I have that I can lend you or you can see my errors and you can learn from me, hey, let's do it. So finding good. A good mentor, good communities that. That are supportive, you know, a group of, you know, entrepreneurs who may be single moms, you know, a group of entrepreneurs who may be single dads, a group of entrepreneurs who may be social impact entrepreneurs, which is a whole nother field. It's not like the traditional ways in which we find money and scale and all of these different things. And I remember one of my first years at Harvard, I made this comment, just all the beautiful students sitting before me, and they were asking all these questions, how do I scale? How do I build money? How do I do this? How do I do that? And I said, well, I'm not a shark.
I don't want to learn how sharks operate. I'm more of a dolphin.
I operate in building community. I feel like we can get more done together again, finding things that light up your life, light up your soul.
So the high percentage of entrepreneurs that do fail in the first year, we may be amongst those numbers. But even if I have to fail, I want to fail authentically, right? Let me feel authentically. Let me feel in my own vein, in my own rights. And it's something about that when you can say, you know what? Yeah, that sense of resilience, like, I fail, but I failed doing it my way, with my vision. I just need to, like, figure out a little bit more and find the pieces that's going to put this thing together. I love that. Versus, I'm just listening here, there, everywhere, and I'm failing everybody else's dreams, except for my own.
Because failure is a part of life, right? As pain is. But suffering is often optional.
And so when it comes to this world of entrepreneurship, finding. You said it, Jennifer. Good people, good community, good mentors. Even if you can't find all those things, you. I found mentors in books, right? People didn't even know they were my mentors. And I'm like, I love you. You're my person. And you don't know it.
You know, finding mentors and books, just reaching out to people. You know, I would create my own opportunities. At times, even when I didn't think people wanted to talk to me or be, I'm like, hey, I'm struggling here. It looks like you have some wisdom there. Can I lean into you also now, you know, finding good podcasts, because we are in the information age.
Finding good podcasts, finding good YouTube videos, just. But the, the thing is, again, things that resonate with you, not what you, what everybody's telling you you're supposed to do, those are some things that I've learned, has helped myself and other entrepreneurs along the way.
[00:54:19] Speaker A: I love that.
Excellent advice from, from, from both of you, for sure.
Does anybody want to ask a question of Kalisha and Jennifer?
If so, just raise your hand. No pressure. You don't have to, but if you want to ask them anything live, you can. I've been trying to. I think I caught most of the questions that were already in the chat.
Amin Lukil, you were the first, first to introduce yourself and you might be the last to speak. Let's see. So put, put the camera down on your face so that we can see you.
[00:55:01] Speaker D: Yes, again, again, the same, the same issue.
[00:55:04] Speaker A: Correct.
And let's spotlight you.
And so thank you.
[00:55:10] Speaker D: So first of all, thank you very much for all of you for sharing.
Kalisha. And again, it was great to, to, to see Jennifer that I know.
I'm having a question because during now my PhD journey, I'm working on conceptualizing what does it mean an entrepreneur now the word entrepreneur become a buzzword. Okay, what I mean. And as an entrepreneur, being through mental health, people still confuse entrepreneur with business, entrepreneurs with engineers, entrepreneurs with that entrepreneur is much deeper than that. And still people, people doing a buzzword people, they think entrepreneurship, it is about money and that it is something that it made me hurt. Because when I see all my peers, how they're working and things like that, they did not understand that and that it is much more, much more deeper than money. It is much more about a purpose and things like that. And when you see that entrepreneur are struggling, you know what I mean?
Each time when we talk about entrepreneurs and what makes me crazy that always we talk about the unicorn.
But these people, an entrepreneur, we can see it very properly. When there is not an ecosystem system.
These people, if I remove this kind of unicorn to put the same person to tell them, okay, go to the, to the, to the. Another, another, another country, create your company, it will be different And I will ask you the same question. When I was in Academy of Management, people start, there is first silence after I ask the question and then, then they start to laugh. And they told me, oh, academic scholar, you know, new renewed scholar. They said, oh, it's very difficult to, to define or what is an entrepreneurs.
So, so I'm going to ask to Jennifer and Kalisha how, what is your kind of definition?
Because there's not a true definition, you know, or things like that. Okay, but what is for you, an entrepreneur?
[00:57:31] Speaker A: Thank you very much, Felicia, you want to take a crack at that?
[00:57:38] Speaker B: Sure.
I see entrepreneurs as problem solvers.
That's how I usually defined an entrepreneur of, you know, you find a problem and you're solving it and you're able to.
[00:57:53] Speaker D: Yes, but you know, I was engineer background. For me, problem solver are engineers. They are not.
[00:57:58] Speaker A: You know what I mean?
[00:57:59] Speaker D: Again.
[00:58:01] Speaker B: You'Re not connected to a system or a government.
[00:58:04] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:58:05] Speaker B: Right. So you're solving the problems independently outside of a system.
And you're. So you're having to generate in, you know, income outside of a system. You're having to find resources outside of a system because. Yeah, in a lot of places, especially as leaders, we're all so solving problems.
That's why we call entrepreneurs very brave. Because a lot of times you're doing it on your own.
[00:58:25] Speaker C: Right.
[00:58:26] Speaker B: Or a problem that the culture or society or the government does not want to solve. A lot of small businesses are the backbones of, of cities and states and, you know, in cultures and places.
So that's why they often, you know, find money to want to funnel to these places because they do keep societies alive, life. So a lot of things were built off of entrepreneurship. You go back in history, in time and you look at a lot of the things with ingenuity and creativity, it wasn't built in the systems, it was built outside of the systems. The innovators. I see entrepreneurship as innovators, dreamers, creators, thinkers that can all be considered, you know, an engineer as well. But are you within the system doing those things? Because so many of us that are, you know, doing it, we have engineering brands, brains, you know, we have scientific brains. It's just I'm outside of a bigger thing, creating it for myself and for others.
I hope that made a little sense.
[00:59:24] Speaker A: It does. Jennifer, did you want to add anything?
[00:59:28] Speaker C: I love everything that Kalisha said. I, when she, when she said the first word that came out of her mouth, what was it that you said the first word about Problem solving.
[00:59:39] Speaker B: Problem solver, Problem Solves.
[00:59:40] Speaker C: Yeah. So as you said problem solvers. I wrote trailblazers. And, and you said innovation. I wrote innovation. I had written down innovation. So I feel like they're trailblazers. Yes. Problem solvers. I always see entrepreneurs as people who want to be their own boss and I also see them as contributing very much to the economy and to our gdp. So, so that's where I, I, I, that's how I see entrepreneurs.
But I, I think I, I echo what Kalisha is saying.
[01:00:09] Speaker D: Awesome.
[01:00:10] Speaker A: I mean we look forward to your research when you're done maybe.
[01:00:14] Speaker D: Yeah, yeah.
[01:00:15] Speaker A: Share with us.
[01:00:19] Speaker D: Just one thing. It is good to, to hear that because normally when we talk about entrepreneurs and we're teaching entrepreneurs it is always in business school. Normally entrepreneurs should be teach in any kind of field. You know what I mean? Entrepreneurs, leadership. An artist could be an entrepreneur, a lawyer could be an entrepreneur. Everyone could be an entrepreneur. And for me to go deeper, for me an entrepreneur, it is much more I try okay to, to give that because I was an entrepreneur for many years and I'm still on the subject. It is, it is all about freedom and taking responsibilities.
[01:00:54] Speaker A: Agree.
We agree with that as well. Thank you, thank you for sharing.
I don't think there's any more questions. We are at time and so Kalisha, Jennifer, final thoughts. Kalisha from you.
[01:01:12] Speaker B: Again, thank you all. I love Sharon's face. I'm so glad Jennifer we've finally been able to have our synergetic conversations.
David, great host. I love how, how you have navigated via the talk. I love the, the platform and the space that you've created for so many beautiful beings that are figuring it out.
Continue and I would love to connect with the community.
I, I'm on social media as Dr. Kalisha. D R C A L I S H A I think you have our information.
[01:01:44] Speaker A: Yes, yes we will. And just so everybody knows the this is as you all know it's going to be recorded and we, everybody will get the recording. Everybody. There's about 500 people that registered and so everybody will get it and in, in and, and we'll also send a follow up email with like a recap and, or, and, and, and our speakers contact information. So yeah, yeah.
[01:02:05] Speaker B: So I again would just love to connect more with the community especially as I'm rolling out some new things myself with the app. Love some beta testing. So yeah getting different communities involved.
[01:02:17] Speaker A: Awesome. Jennifer, final thoughts.
[01:02:20] Speaker C: I'm going to come back to what Kalisha said at the very, very beginning that we're human first and leader second. So yeah, it was really, really nice to be a part of this discussion and I hope that I get to meet you in person at some point, Kalisha and David.
[01:02:35] Speaker B: So sure.
[01:02:36] Speaker A: Well, I will be at Harvard in April again, so maybe we can recreate this a third time. That would be great.
Everybody else, thank you so much for tuning in.
The last Thursday of the month in November is Thanksgiving. And so we do not normally have a, we don't have an ESS on in November.
We actually have a combined November, December one, it's December 11th.
It is all about the life science journey. And so we have three companies that are, are that have just been killing it out there. So you know, you know how they've raised money, what their journey has been, what their struggles have been, investment. And they're all life sciences company and so tune in for that. You'll see some marketing about that. We thank everybody. Have an awesome holiday season.
Bye all. Thank you so much.
Take care. Bye. Bye.
