Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Courage is not the absence of fear. It's actually action in the face of fear.
[00:00:04] Speaker B: I think the antidote to fear is like complete transparency that HR only works with the CEO.
[00:00:10] Speaker C: I think this is a really common misconception.
[00:00:12] Speaker B: Welcome to a new episode of Entrepreneurial Strategy series with David Pistolski. Okay, everybody, hello. My name is David Pistolski. I am an intellectual property attorney, a patent attorney, a partner at a firm called Gerhardt Law, and you are now in the June 2025 entrepreneurial strategy series session.
We put these sessions on every month for the last four years. It's usually the last Thursday of the month.
We encourage you to ask questions. We will have some time at the end where you can ask your questions live.
But this series is all about education and empowerment of entrepreneurs on all topics relating from, you know, concept to exit.
If you have any ideas for topics you want to see, do let me know, chat me or email me or something like that and we'll be happy to try to create a session for you.
This particular session is called Founders in the Law, Protecting your business people and legacy.
And so we, I'm very excited to have these two speakers with us. I am going to allow them to introduce themselves and hopefully they can also share their information in the chat.
And then we'll get into Fireside chat about things related to employment, wills and trust law, some intellectual property. If something isn't covered specifically chat it, you know, we, we, we will, we'll look at the chat and we'll try to monitor questions. This session is being.
It is a podcast as well that is downloadable and everybody that is registered, about 300 people registered. And so if you're not here, you'll still get the recording as well. And so let's get into it. I'm going to start with Paige Joffe, our first speaker. Paige, maybe you can take a moment to introduce yourself, let everybody know who you are, where you are, kind of in the same fashion that they did for you.
[00:02:24] Speaker C: Sure. My name is Paige Joffe. I am an attorney and I'm barred in Pennsylvania, New Jersey and New York.
And I specialize, I came from a background of complex commercial litigation and complex employment litigation. And now my main focus is on severance agreement negotiations or wrongful termination negotiations. A lot of people don't know that when they get terminated from their employer, you know, the employers come in with this, this severance agreement usually and it's like signed by X date. And a lot of people do and they rush and they sign it and they don't understand that it's negotiable contract. And what I do is I review those severance agreements and I get my clients a lot more money. And it's all contingent, but most of the time it's not a promise. But 99% of the time you get a lot more money. I'm talking like five to 10 times and people don't know. So I just want to help people.
Be aware that when you're terminated, you have the power, you have the negotiating leverage.
So that's been my mission. I love helping people because I feel like I'm helping people every day in a really tough time and lifting them up. I'm also a yoga teacher, so I Yoga, mental health, it's all really important to me. So I just, I really value personal connection, community and helping others. So I think that's what it's all about when we can all help each other.
[00:03:55] Speaker B: Let's talk to our second speaker, Neal Shah. Neil, spend a few minutes. Who are you? Where are you? What do you do?
[00:04:03] Speaker A: Well, thank you and thank you, David for having us. This is my first time on this forum and you've done a fantastic job putting this community together. So excited to be a part of it. So thanks again for having me.
Yeah, I guess I'm coming up on or completing year 25 in this business. A big chunk of that. I've been working with David in some capacity or other to serve clients. So it's been a real Honor.
We at Omni360 Advisors, we brand ourselves as a 360 degree firm. And it's somewhat, I guess, a unique proposition. At least we think it is. It's a one stop shop where we have a law firm, a wealth management firm and a tax and accounting firm under the same roof. We're located outside of the Princeton area in New Jersey, Plainsboro, New Jersey. And essentially the only thing that we really do is help business owners and individuals to meet their goals, whether it's during their lifetime goals or their legacy goals.
Personally married to my former prom date. She didn't leave me at the prom. The prom ended at some point.
We've got two kids in college. One is entering her fourth year, the other is entering his third year.
So getting ready for this new season of life and just a brief history about myself professionally. I did start out in that transactional business law space, which is why business has always been a passion of mine.
I think before we transitioned to the current model, I did something like 4 to 5,000 transactions with respect to corporate business, real estate transactions. Really Loved the advisory component of what I do, but didn't necessarily love the transactional piece of it. I think there were other attorneys who were better at the actual due diligence and contracts and closings and this, that and the other.
So over the span of my career, we've moved to more of that advisory approach as opposed to the transactional approach.
And education wise, I did go to Penn State undergrad. That's my finance degree. So I know Wendy was from State College. We are so shout out to the Nittany Lions out there.
Law school was Yeshiva University, Cardoza Law School, and then the CFP for my financial advisory was through Bryant University.
And you see those letters after my name. Most people know what the ESQ stands for. Paige and David are obviously, we're all attorneys here.
The cfp, a lot of people know that's a certified financial planner. That middle piece, the SEPA is not a cpa. It's the certified Exit Planning Advisor. And that's really helping business owners realize that we're all going to have an exit at some point. Some people walk out vertically, other people get carried out horizontally, which is a morbid way of thinking about it. But we're all going to exit a business at some point. So if we can find ways to exit it gracefully and meet our lifetime goals and leave our legacy goals and save some tax dollars along the way, that's a big part of our value proposition. So with that, I'll stop my monologue and looking forward to meeting everybody, actually.
[00:06:50] Speaker B: So one of the reasons why we wanted to have this conversation was when a founder or a company or startup or an entrepreneur or a big company comes to us with some sort of idea.
Yeah, we are intellectual property attorneys and we're trying to help them protect with patent, trademark or copyright. But then the next few questions that they ask us, we can help them, which is, I have a company and I want to hire people and I want to grow my staff and I want to be able to trust the people that I'm working with, whether it's consultant, freelancer.
So this idea of employment always comes up. And for all of you that have your companies, you are going to be growing them.
Another question that always comes up for me, which is why I have Neil on speed dial, is okay, now I have my company or I'm still building my company, but now I need to plan for the future. I need to plan for, God forbid, what happens to me or one of my founders or, you know, what happens to one of my partners. God forbid this happens or that happens. And so, you know, understanding that type of law is really important for people. And so that's why I wanted Neil and Paige on this, on this session, so that they can kind of give you an insight as to what some of those areas of law are and what are some of the reasons that you would call on them. You can call on them through me, but at the end of the day, if you can call on them directly, that's also a good thing. So let's start with Neil. Maybe you can talk a little bit about that. You're firmed or firms, I should say, you do a lot. And so when, so when are people coming to you? When they need you? Whether it's you directly or people at your firm? What are some of the types of those situations that you can help with?
[00:08:45] Speaker A: Yeah, that's a great question. You know, I try to almost like remove our firms. And we can always dive deeper into this because from a compliance standpoint, yes, the law firm is different. The accounting firm is different, and the wealth management firm is different. Our insurance firm is different. We have to keep those walls up.
But I always use this analogy of like, we don't go to like a Home Depot or a Lowe's for those of us in America and buy a hammer and a nail and saws and wood and all that and then come home and decide what we want to build. We decide what we want to build and then we get the appropriate tools and a lot of those other things that we have, whether they're trusts or LLCs or certain SMAs or investment strategies, those are all tools. But what are we looking to build here? And whether you're a solopreneur, an entrepreneur, a partner, if the goal is, and I think somebody had said my goal is to exit within five to seven years, well, that's a fantastic goal. But if that's what we're building for and that's what ultimate success looks like for us, let's start with the end in mind. Let's deconstruct that and go backward and say, okay, in five to seven years, I know I'm going to need funding. And if I need funding, I might be approaching private equity, or I might have some venture capitalist money that comes in or use institutional financing.
And that might mean that I'm going to have to give up a personal guarantee. But you know what? I had a corporate job for many years and I don't want to give up my, or risk my personal savings, my house, my kids, college education, because that VC or That private institutional lender is going to ask me for those personal guarantees. So what can I do now to protect my assets so that when that institutional lender comes and if things don't work out because we know what the statistics are with respect to businesses, I'm not giving up my nest egg as a result of the project that I want to pursue, which is my passion going forward.
So that tends to be a good conversation to have now about something that's going to happen five to seven years from now. And if I know that I live in a high income tax state, then what can I do when that exit happens five to seven years from now to make sure that I'm saving every possible tax dollar, whether it's on in California that's got a 13% tax or New Jersey's got a almost 11%, New York's got a 12%. All that sort of stuff we can do if we know what we're trying to build. And then look, if we're hopping a plane from my close airport here in Newark, New Jersey and my goal is to get to Beijing, I know that I'm going to pack my noise canceling headphones, I know I'm going to pack my book, my neck pillow, all these things that are going to make my flight comfortable. That's planning for success.
That's when you do things like tax planning. But I also know that when I hop on that plane, they go through the safety briefing and I have a life preserver under my seat, there might be a parachute and all this sort of stuff. Things don't always go the way that we're expecting to go. And that's when we got to have an emergency plan in place. And if somebody becomes incapacitated, if you go through a bankruptcy, if you go through a divorce, or you have a partner that does you wrong, making sure you have an emergency plan is basically the equivalent of that parachute, that life preserver. So if we know what success looks like, you plan for that success, you map it out. It's not a hard map, it's more like a gps because you're going to have to reroute and recalibrate as you go along that way.
That's the success plan. But then have a plan for all the emergency contingencies like your wills, your trusts, your asset protection plan.
[00:11:52] Speaker B: From a kind of intellectual property perspective, that's kind of the same advice that we give people as well, which is you have these great ideas like, you know, protect it now, like now is the time to file a patent now is the time to file for a trademark. Don't wait. And so. And of course, those are assets that then you know that, that need their own planning. Which is, which is when you would go to someone like Neil. Right. Because that those assets plus other assets is kind of what you're planning for the future. That's great. I love that.
Paige, same question for you.
I know you do a lot in severance, but, you know, but you've also had experience with.
[00:12:39] Speaker C: And also a general practice.
[00:12:41] Speaker B: Exactly. And so maybe you can talk about, you know, some of the reasons why people would come to you before they're getting fired. Also right.
[00:12:48] Speaker A: At the end of the day, you.
[00:12:50] Speaker C: Know, before that part, in preparation, when, whenever you take a job, when you ever. You sign a new employment contract, if you're not a person who's working for yourself yet, you would have me review your employment contract because first I do a bunch of contract review again, like dovetailing off of what Neil just said, working from the end. That contract actually specifies what would happen should you be terminated a lot of the time, or if it doesn't, you could add that in. And with that being said, you could, you know, let's say your employment contract. A lot of people don't read it. They're just like, oh, here's my offer. Like, and also you can negotiate that. You can negotiate more, more salary.
And a.99% of the time you can negotiate more salary, negotiate a starting bonus, negotiate a travel bonus, negotiate a moving bonus. And a lot of people leave money on the table in, in all areas because they just don't know. And that's okay. But that's why we're here to like to guide you.
But it's my, it's definitely my passion, like getting people the most for what they're doing because a lot of the time they just. A lot of time people don't know their worth. And that's also something. It's. Yeah, it's not, it's not, you know, per se, a lawyering skill. But I, I love to let people know like where. Like what. Because I see a lot of employment contracts, I see a lot of cases and you know, valuing not valuing people, but reassuring people that they're. They're worth a lot more than they think a lot of the time. And really assisting and advocating for their worth, like that's what it's all about for me. And so when you start, when you start a new position, spend a couple hundred dollars, have an attorney review that employment contract, have the attorney suggest some things that you can do to protect yourself from your employment contract. Because that's the, that's the document that really shifts the way things, things could, you know, come about in the future.
Negotiating your, your salary for you, giving you some, some tips and tools of, of not only your salary, but your benefits to improve the quality of your life and you know, what your, your monthly budget looks like. And, but it's really important to, to spend that money on the front end so that you're not having to lose money on the back end.
So it's again, working from, from, from the end.
So what's your goal?
And that's where, you know, I start with, with all my clients. And a lot of the time, like I have to ask like, would you like to make more money? And everyone always says yes. I was like, okay, well let's make that happen with regard to the other services that, that I offer that help people.
Any contract review because you really should again have an attorney look at any document that you're signing to protect yourself. And I came from an employment and litigation background. I have like the knowledge and the, the foresight to know, okay, this contract says this and this is what it would mean for you. Maybe you're exposing yourself in litigation, maybe you're not protecting yourself enough in litigation. But using that contract as the document to, to protect yourself and to see the, the maybe embedded claims within there, within these contracts adding value. I think it's just very important to, to cross your T's and dot your eyes and have that foresight to protect yourself. And you're worth it. You're worth 100 couple bucks or a couple hundred dollars and you're worth, you're worth way more than that as well.
But a consultation for, for anyone never hurts. Like always take the leap if you have, and you always have more time that as well. Like the, the employer will often be like, oh, sign your offer letter by X date, sign your severance agreement by X date. And they're putting this pressure because they don't want you to know that there is money on the table that you could, if you get another opinion, there's money and there's, there's negotiating power on the table that you could really leverage. I just love, I love spreading the word about that because I'm really passionate about people understanding their worth and getting, you know, every drop of what they deserve.
[00:17:23] Speaker B: Hear, hear. I agree with you on that page, but I wanted to add to quite. You brought up an interesting point about value. I want to get back to that in a second. Do you also help the employer? The flip side of that?
[00:17:35] Speaker C: Not right now, no.
[00:17:36] Speaker B: Got it. So you really are on the side of the employee. I love that. That's awesome.
[00:17:40] Speaker C: Yeah. So what I do for the employ, it's not severance related, but for employers, I'll do business law, so I'll do contract review. I'll negotiate for them. I haven't regard. With regard to severance, so I don't negotiate with them. With regard to some business deals. Yes.
Real estate contracts. Yes.
[00:18:01] Speaker B: Got it.
Yeah. No, the reason why I'm asking is because there are people on this call that are the employers. Right. And not just the employees. And so it sounds like you can help them as well.
[00:18:12] Speaker C: Oh, absolutely, yeah.
[00:18:13] Speaker B: And. And I think you brought up Val. I think you brought up value. That, that's actually, that's actually a good topic because I think, I think all three of us deal with that in some, in some way or another. Right. You're trying to, you know, kind of educate the actual employee that they're worth something. From an intellectual property perspective. I'm trying to educate people that the things that they create are worth something. Right. There's value to that, to protect it and to, you know, get investment for it and stuff like that. So I. So yeah, so thank you for bringing up value.
[00:18:48] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:18:50] Speaker B: Thoughts on, thoughts on just value, Neil, because I think, I think you brought up it. You, you actually brought it up first.
[00:18:58] Speaker C: But I just wanted to mention that I also draft employee handbooks for employers.
[00:19:02] Speaker B: Yeah, no, I think that's important. I think I was trying to get to that, actually. I think because at the end of the day, there are people that are building their staff, this call, they're hiring the employees. There are plenty of people out there that are looking to get hired, but there's plenty of companies here who are building out their personnel. And so that's good to know. Thank you for that.
[00:19:22] Speaker A: So value, Neil, value for our customers, for our clients, for the general community. It's, it's such a unique internal proposition. Like it's between our ears. Right. Basically, the value for anybody you're speaking with is going to be how they interpret the communication that you give to them.
But then, you know, how are you, how are you protecting that value? And not to keep going back to this, but I will say if you, if you start with the end in mind, you know, it's, it's the concept of what we do. Like, I'll use myself as an entrepreneur. I've never Had a job. I started my own practice right out of law school.
I should say right out of a clerkship. I had a very supportive spouse and a very supportive family that allowed me to do this, really, 25 years ago.
Don't recommend doing it that way, by the way. But my value proposition at the time was different. And I always kind of go back to this. You guys know Zappos, the shoe company, and some of you might have heard this parable, and I'm sure I'll butcher it. But there's this phone call that a customer service rep gets, and that customer service rep is on the line, answers the phone, thinking it's about shoes. And the person online says, hey, I've been waiting 30 minutes. Where's my pizza?
And the customer service rep is saying something to the effect of, we're a shoe company, sir, so we don't serve pizzas. And the guy, I don't know if he's drunk. In my head, when I hear this story, I think he is drunk. It's saying, I don't care what's going on here. If my pizza's not here in 30 minutes, I'm going to leave a bad review. Yada, yada, yada. This goes on back and forth for a few minutes, and the next thing you know, a pizza shows up at this customer's door because this customer service rep orders a pizza. Again, I'm probably butchering the parable, but it works for me.
The takeaway from that is Tony Hsieh, who's the CEO, God rest his soul, tells the story that we're not a shoe company, we're not an attire company, we're a service company. And the way we show our love is buy shoes right now. But if all of a sudden the world changes tomorrow and we start levitating and nobody needs to wear shoes anymore because we could be barefoot, floating all around all over the world, we're still going to find a way to provide value. We're still going to find a way to provide love. And the way that we kind of Translate this in omni360 is we are a service firm who serves business owners. And today we do it with a combination of legal tools, financial tools, tax planning tools. But if tomorrow legislation changes and all of a sudden we don't need any of those things, we will still find a way to provide value. We'll still provide a service.
Now, from a business owner's perspective, you have to find a way to protect that value. You might have proprietary data, and that's Where David comes in and make sure that we have, like, a way to not just build and protect what we have right now, but perpetuate it for the long term and make sure that in the future, when there is an exit event, that person who's about to stroke me a check for my 12 times EBITDA is saying, yeah, it makes sense for me to buy that, because I know that I'm going to be able to do something more with it. And if I have those systems in our process, and then we have the fantastic team, and now we're gonna have a way to protect that team, retain that team, and protect our trade secrets. Because they're not gonna solicit us. Because we have a fantastic handbook that Paige has put together.
Well, now we've got people and processes. Now we can take this value proposition and scale it. Because if you build it, you wanna build it with an idea towards scaling it. Often it means you're gonna take two steps backward before you have to take five steps forward. Sometimes you have to do that. You have to break a bone if it's not healing properly. But if you have that right chassis, if you're clear on your value proposition, we use tools like EOS Traction within our firm. Some of you know about that. The four disciplines of execution. There's all these great business books out there, too. Find the one that works for you, be very clear on your value proposition, and then protect it, whether it's legal tools, financial tools, or tax tools.
[00:22:55] Speaker B: Well said. Agreed. Paige, any comment on that?
[00:22:59] Speaker C: I picked those.
[00:23:02] Speaker B: Yes, I totally agree.
[00:23:04] Speaker A: This is me dropping the Pentagon.
[00:23:08] Speaker C: I love the. Love. The sprinkle of love.
[00:23:11] Speaker B: Yeah, for sure, Neil. We'll stick on you. So, like, listen, fear is sometimes the best teacher in the world and sometimes used, you know, strategically by lawyers to, you know, to communicate to their clients that if you don't do X, you're effed. And so.
Can you talk a little bit? Paige, you're up next on this. Can you talk a little bit about, like, what are some of the lessons learned if you don't plan the right way from a Wills trust, tax planning situation? That's a big one. Maybe you can talk about some of that.
[00:23:53] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, fear, you're right, is. It's. We're lucky as human beings and we're blessed if we have fear. Like, we need to know that if we put our hand too close to the grill, we're going to get burned. Like, it's. It's important to have that fear.
Courage is not the absence of fear. It's actually action in the face of fear.
So that's really where I think the implementation of some of these things that we talk about is so, so important.
Entrepreneurship. You know, I think Michael Gerber talks about this in the E. Myth. He says, you know, most people don't start businesses because they have a fantastic business plan. Most of them are not looking out at the ocean and get inspired, then come back and put up the other business plan. Usually they're like these entrepreneurial seizures. Like, it's like, yeah, I could do things better than my boss can. I don't need to do this here. I hate this, or I hate that person. Or I just really want my financial freedom, my life freedom, my time freedom. So it's usually an entrepreneurial seizure that leads to it.
You know, lawyers are notorious. Present company excluded, of course, but lawyers are notorious for using that fear tool. And it might be, hey, you left your store, you left the business that you were at before, and now you're using our trade secrets, or you solicited an employee, or you're going to fail. You shouldn't do this anyway. Again, that should be a motivator. And whether it is the documentation, whether it's seeking mentors, whether it's seeking guidance, if you're consulting with a lawyer, an accountant, or a financial advisor, or somebody who's got all three under those roofs itself, too great. But getting the mentors, getting the peers, getting the people who are in the industry, getting the people who are outside of the industry, and getting fresh perspectives, all of those, those are going to be really, you know, my, my. I might be getting too deep here, but the antidote to fear for me has always been gratitude and faith. And I don't mean like from a religious standpoint, but I don't think you can coexist on one side of the equation if you have fear, if on the other side of the equation you have gratitude and faith, gratitude for, like, where you are and the skills that you've already got and faith that whatever business concept you're working on right now will work out. You will overcome that sort of fear.
Now, you can't meditate your way to it. You can't just wake up every morning for 25 minutes and just put manifest it or something like that. As much as, like, other people might encourage that. And I'm not discouraging crystals, all that stuff is great to have. You have to take action. That's one of your responsibilities as entrepreneurs. Actions involve.
You don't know what you don't know.
And that's this whole pie chart for business owners, right? We know what we know. Like, I know how to sell a product that I'm buying. I know how to run my CRM software.
We know what we don't know. I don't know Cantonese. I don't know how to dunk a basketball. I'm not capable of doing that. What I don't know is what I don't know. That's the danger zone for most of these entrepreneurs. And that's usually where the fear comes in from. It's this fear of the unknown. I don't know what I don't know. That's when you have to enlist the right experts in there, because you can't. You can't listen. You can't read blogs and listen to podcasts and work your way to that. At some point, the general knowledge, the self education, even the ChatGPT has to stop and you have to get consultation from the right people.
[00:26:53] Speaker B: I agree with everything that you're saying, Neil. I actually think from my perspective, I say it a little bit differently, but it's exactly on point.
I think the antidote to fear is like complete transparency. I'm a big believer. Like when, when I have a potential client that comes and says, like, you know, I need to protect this. I have to file a patent or trademark. I don't want there to be any surprises as to what could happen if you don't protect yourself, if you don't do this, if you don't do that, you know, for simply the reason, like, I don't want to hear it later. And so of course I'm going to tell you now what could potentially happen.
Call that fear, but it's more like just being transparent with what the possible outcomes are if you don't protect your intellectual property, your employees, your employers, your estate, all of that, it kind of. It's kind of all wrapped in Paige fear.
[00:27:52] Speaker C: So I agree with, I agree with the both of you. I think fear is that being grateful for fear, realizing that it is a light, a little green light for you, you and your body and your nervous system to be like, okay, it's time to take action. Because I have this. This gut feeling that I'm in tune with that is here for me to help protect myself.
And if you can, you can.
Fear and faith are two sides of the same coin and not in a religious context. Again, just like having absolute security and complete grounding in your future and in your success is the opposite side of the same Coin of fear, which is uncertainty and, you know, everything's up in the air. And the only thing that gets you onto the faith side of the coin is preparation. And it's authenticity where it comes to, you know, being transparent. Right? That's authenticity. It's if you can tell your attorney every single thing about what your potential, as much knowledge as you could possibly blurt out to your attorney, the better, even if you think it's not even related, because again, you don't know what you don't know.
And these, these conversations with, with anyone in your network, but more specifically in this, in this regard we're talking about as an attorney is these people are, are trained to issue spot.
This might seem all out of left field. Like I had this exact issue with a client the other day and I was like, I asked this question and I didn't think it was going to be relevant because it didn't seem like it would, but I asked it anyway and he was like, what does that have to do with anything? And I said, you know, it was another claim. It was a whole other claim. It made his case. It was incredible. But you don't know what you don't know. And that authenticity is, is the, it takes off the sheath. It reveals all of the working parts that must work well together in order for everything to thrive. And I think it works. Authenticity works in the same, the same way when you're working with opposition, like when I'm working with opposition, they call them, I don't really like calling them opposite, like another attorney, because playing nice in the sandbox and being authentic. People can feel when you're being a real person. They can feel when you're being fake and when you're lying to them, but they can also feel when you're being a real person.
And that's when the progress happens. Progress happens when you're not scared, when you're not in this fear standpoint, when you are open to possibility.
And I feel like in just, in just using these related pillars is so, so powerful. Just even, just even being aware and moving into any, you know, legal, legal or business strategy with these pillars in mind, just rocket ship.
[00:31:05] Speaker B: Yeah, I agree. Well said, Paige. I'm going to stick on you a little bit. Can you talk about maybe from an employer and employee perspective, because it's kind of related to fear, but what are some of the mistakes you've seen that you can educate people on what not to do? If you're an employer, for sure. An employee, you know, Absolutely.
[00:31:28] Speaker C: So what not to Do. If any superior or, you know, someone above anyone witnesses a statement made to an employee, make a report, report it. Go to hr, get on top of it. Don't let. Like this should be part of the HR training that if you hear something, nip it in the Buddha.
If it, if it seems a little off, nip it in the bud. Report it.
Because if that behavior perpetuates, if it's not resolved, it can fester into sore. If you, if you don't display that you have a zero tolerance policy for anything that is, you know, sour or you know, discrimination or even if like, even a funny. Like, like I had a client who was.
Has a darker complexion and he was ordering lunch. He was ordering from an Indian restaurant and he, his. His co. His co workers were making fun of him while his boss was there for being Indian, even though he wasn't Indian. And there's nothing to be made fun of for that. But it was.
That's. That's discrimination because it's perceived. Right? It's. It's. Which is not to get in the weeds. But that should have been, that should have been addressed and that should have been in the moment and then reported to HR because prevents this sore from festering with. With regard to how. What's tolerated and in the workplace, what works for what is tolerated is kindness, respect, transparent authenticity. Just. And you know, sometimes like in this day and age, yeah like people, things have gotten a little bit sensitive. Right. There's, There's a lot of like trigger words and this and that. But just if I found that if the employer works from this place is kind to their employees, treats them well knows that is. Is.
Is verbal, that they have their employees on their side.
Like they're rooting for their employees to enjoy their work, to enjoy every day that they spend together as, as collaborators, you know, as colleagues and, and foster a healthy workplace. That's the best formula for success. That's the best formula for avoiding any lawsuit. It's really not that complicated. Like the, The. The clients that I hadn't. Like there are maybe I think there's really only one at this point client that I had not been able to negotiate a severance for. And she loved her employer. She couldn't tell me a darn after six years, she couldn't tell me a darn thing that they did wrong about her.
Like nothing. No hidden claims whatsoever because she was treated with respect, she was treated with kindness. And the workplace fostered this beautiful environment.
And it's so much more simple than these employers are making it with like, they're moving from this place of fear almost.
Which, yes, it's. It's. That is necessary, you know, to have the right employee handbook.
[00:34:35] Speaker B: What I wanted. So, Paige, I don't know if you're. Hopefully you can come back to us.
Those were really great words of wisdom that I think everyone should adopt in the world, not just in the. In the workplace, for sure.
We all just be a little bit more kinder. I think the world would be a better place. But yeah, in your workplace. Yeah, it should definitely be. I mean, you know, I'm a partner at a law firm, and we try to adopt that same thing. You know, everybody gets treated with respect, regardless of what you're doing at the firm, what your position is and whatnot. So for everybody building a company or joining a company, please make sure that those are the environments that you're building and joining. That's really important, Neil.
Mistakes you've seen people make.
In your. In your legal realm.
[00:35:35] Speaker A: There'S. They're plentiful. But let's.
You can't buy your flood insurance after it starts raining.
So. So I think you'll see this often is people will come to us when they've already got. And I'm going to stick with the success part of it. Like, actually, let's throw a couple scenarios out there. Hey, Neil, I already got an LOI because somebody's willing to buy me. Or I signed up with an investment bank, or I'm speaking to a broker about getting financing, and I've already started sharing my financials. My partner wants to leave, and they walked out with our laptop and they walked out with our trade secrets. Or my key employee left with those key trade secrets. Or I went to Costco and I use my corporate card to book my trip to Hawaii for me and my family because I wanted the tax deduction. Oh, and when I'm in Hawaii, by the way, I'll think about work. So maybe I could write the whole thing off. So I guess these are all examples of people calling us after the. It started raining, and now it's like, hey, can you fix this for us? And the reality is, our calls that we get usually fall into two categories. It's do I, I broke something and I need your help fixing it. Or it's, hey, I want to make sure I don't break something.
Or put another way, I could tell you that there are two ways that lawyers make money. It's either fixing stuff that's broken, or it's preemptively planning for it. Usually the ones that fix the broken stuff make more money, not us.
So, all that being said, I do believe that people often focus on the reactive and fixing stuff that's already broken and calling us in those scenarios.
What I would love to be able to do is speak to an entrepreneur before they go into these sort of spaces or business owners before they break things. So we've had clients who called us in January and said, I'm thinking about an exit event in the next two years.
I started my business, so I have no cost basis in it. It's all going to be taxable gain. What can we do to reduce that tax liability?
Excellent. Great. Now we talk about things like a South Dakota trust or maybe doing things with your investment portfolio to build up losses in advance of that that we can use against this taxable gain.
We can talk about things like, you know, potentially shifting income. Or we might have somebody who says, neil, I started this business and I have two kids. One child is involved with the business. The other child is not involved with the business at all. But I want to make sure that if something happens to me, the right people step into the right shoes. But at the same time, if I pass away, I want to make sure that the right person inherits the business. The other person doesn't interfere with that business itself, too. We are preemptively fixing it before it's broken. So I could either wait to have the heart attack and then have somebody like administer cpr, or I could start exercising and eating the occasional salad right now, too. And I think the biggest mistakes are a lot of people just wait for the heart attack. They wait for things to hit the fan, and by then our options are coming off the table. And it could be hitting the fan in a great way, like, I'm going to get a 12x multiple. Fantastic. That's a beautiful problem to have, but it's still a problem. We still have to solve for it preemptively. Plan for things like success, but then also plan for things like failures. Do your SWOT analysis. What are your strengths, your weaknesses, your opportunities, and your threats, and then get other people's advice on what stuff that you don't know. Going back to the you don't know what you don't know.
[00:38:51] Speaker B: Excellent. I, you know, I think from an intellectual property perspective, we see that a lot.
I usually want to meet someone at concept. Like I want to be.
I want to be the first person you tell the idea don't come to me after you sold the product that you now Want to patent. Because you can't do that in America. Right. Don't come to me after you spoke to a thousand investors and now have money and now have the ability to file for a patent because you might be too late to file for a patent. You know, don't come to me years later saying, I now want to file for a trade trademark. But. But you waited all this time. There's like two other companies that have something similar. Too late, too late, too late, too late. Wake up and call me, you know, as early as possible.
[00:39:34] Speaker A: David, isn't that the case when you're filing. This is a public application that you're filing, and if you misfile it or you do something wrong, haven't you just put a bunch of public information out there that you potentially may not have any protection for as well? Because. Yeah, so that's absolutely.
[00:39:49] Speaker B: Paige, you're back with us on the staircase. Thank you.
Appreciate that.
[00:39:55] Speaker C: I never have connectivity issues, but of course, today I do.
[00:39:57] Speaker B: Of course, that's what's Murphy's Law, for sure. Paige, how does somebody. By the way, there was a comment that I think maybe you should see in the chat, and I think it's an. It's. It's an interesting one. It was by. By. By Rich Heckleman. I don't know if you have a particular comment about it. He says HR works only for the CEO. It has become irrelevant for employees except to help them understand benefits. I actually had a.
There's more. But I actually had a similar comment that I wanted to ask you before. Before. Before you cut out, which is, what is. What if there's no HR department? You know, like, not many companies even have HR departments as they're growing. And so, you know, I'm sitting around and I hear a consultant or a freelancer, an employee say something, but who do I like? What do I. Where do I go? And who do I do?
And like, like, what do I do about situations like that? So maybe you can talk about that and maybe. Maybe comment on.
On Rich's comments.
[00:40:57] Speaker C: Sure thing. Well, to address Rich's comment, first that HR only works with the CEO. I think this is a really common misconception in order to protect yourself. And if you have any harassment, like an employee has any harassment claims against employer, it is so important to report to HR because it's really easy to make a case for yourself if you do, in fact report to HR and create a record. And that's you creating record. That's the employee creating a record. That's the Employee creating exhibit A.
And a lot of the time the CEO and the HR and the company doesn't want to the employee to know this. And that makes sense. Right. So I think that's why it's been publicized in such a way. But I do think it's important for anyone who is an employee in this call, who is working for someone else, maybe at the same time that they're working for themselves, to just to know that that report is really important and crucial should anything happen down the line just to create, to create a timeline.
It's very important.
[00:42:05] Speaker B: What if there's no HR department was my question.
[00:42:08] Speaker C: Yeah, I think this is again fine for a very small company, given that everyone is kind to each other and there's no playing dirty in the sandbox. And if there is someone playing dirty in the sandbox, then they're probably not a good member of your team. And they, you should talk to an employment lawyer about terminating them in a way that would give you the most protection. Again, their employment contracts. Your employment contract as an employer should also have verbiage in there as well as the handbook should have verbiage in there to protect employer from, you know, disgruntled or an employee who doesn't really match the energy or match the, the, the kindness of everyone else. But I think the best way to protect a small company that doesn't have HR is this authentic, open, considerate, respectful, kind way of communication with each other and someone to monitor that. Someone who is a really good relationship person regardless of what their position is, whether that be the CEO or that be an employee who is not titled hr, but someone who understands human interaction, understands psychology, understands that. Yeah, Carol might be yelling at John, but it's really not about what something that, what John did or said. It's something that Carol is dealing with at home and she's, you know, this whole conflict has, has nothing to do with the interaction.
What they're, what the employees are really arguing about. There, There are more internal issues that when people fight with each other, it's, it's, it's about an internal issue. Because I think that not to go too deep there, but just knowing someone or having someone on hand, whether that be you or someone else who is a relationship, understands relationships and communication, that that is imperative.
[00:44:16] Speaker B: Okay, awesome. Thank you. Pedro, I'm going to stick on you for a little bit. Can you talk about how, how people on this call are listening?
How do they, how do they engage with you? How do you work with them? Maybe you can talk a Little bit about cost too, if you can. Like, what does it mean, like to kind of work with Paige? What does that look like?
[00:44:39] Speaker C: For sure? So I have, you know, different whether, whether it be severance, severance negotiate on employee side or ex employee side or those.
I charge a $250 consultation fee. It's 40 minutes and from there. And that's. That would be, you know, when we do win money, that would just come out of you. I would reimburse you for that.
But that's just the upfront cost to just to kind of like feed myself in the process. And then I take a third of the difference of whatever I negotiate for my ex employee and nothing comes out of ex employee's pocket.
[00:45:20] Speaker B: Got it.
[00:45:22] Speaker C: So it's contingent.
[00:45:25] Speaker B: What about on the employer side?
[00:45:27] Speaker C: Yeah, that's what's next.
So then for any contract review, and this is, this is a new employee, this is employer drafting an employment contract for me to review that employment contract to make it bulletproof.
I mean, you can't guarantee bulletproof, but I can take what I know from my litigation experience and really make it a strong document. I charge 395 an hour.
And you know, there's some wiggle room negotiation friends, family stuff within there, but I charge on an hourly basis for those sorts of things.
You know, any real estate contracts, any just counseling. Like I take counsel calls for my employers or they'll be like, hey, Paige, Joanne came into the office today and she was wearing a belly shirt. And, and John commented on Joanne's belly shirt. And now she feels so like these, these kinds of things, they happen. Right? That's a real, like, that happens. So just like someone to call with these, like as they happen. That's me. And that's, I also charge, that's my hourly. The same 3.95 hourly rate. But those calls are not long. They're usually like a six minute call where we just like quickly like, hey, this is what you should do except like cover your. It's a seat, it's a cover your, your bum kind of thing, but in real time. And I love, I mean, those are my favorite, those are my favorite kind of client employer interactions because they're, I mean, they're entertaining and I get the help too, so.
Yeah.
[00:47:04] Speaker B: That's awesome, Paige. Thanks. Neil. Same question for you. How do people like, what is it? What does it mean to work with, with you and how does that work?
[00:47:15] Speaker A: Well, I put away all my belly shirts, so I'm definitely not showing up in the belly shirt. But yeah, listen, Anybody who's working with us, we try to use the same process from an information gathering standpoint. So almost everybody who onboards with us goes through our client solutions specialist. She's right. Now it's Julie who handles that. Julie Motz is amazing at knowing everything that Omni360 offers because we have such a breadth of services with the tax and accounting firm, whether it's a personal business, startup, mature adolescent business, like knowing what happens on the tax and accounting side, knowing what happens on the legal side, Are we talking about individual trusts and estates? Are we talking about succession planning documents?
Are we talking about asset protection documents? And then obviously on the financial side, it's okay, well, are we protecting our nest egg or are we doing something different? So most people will start with that initial phone call with our client solution specialist with Julie, and then it's her job to get us, get you in front of the right advisor, whether it's somebody like me who's an attorney and a financial advisor. We have people who are accountants and financial advisors. We have people who are attorneys and accountants. So we tax strategists. So we've got a bunch of different ways to serve. But knowing what your needs are is probably, probably the first step. And she's the one who kind of helps us with that.
But you know, ultimately we can't do everything in house. So our job isn't always to have the answers. A lot of times our job is to make sure that we're asking the right questions and that you understand the right questions as well too.
It just starts with a conversation that's essentially it. And from a pricing standpoint, we try to do as much as we can on a flat fee basis, whether it's the tax and accounting stuff or the legal plan. Like for our traditional business succession plans and our estate plans, most of them are going to range within that 4 to $6,000 range. In US dollars itself, too, there's a higher end, there's a lower end, but knowing which plan is the best for you usually comes down to, these are the plans we're recommending, but it's really up to you.
So the clients and the business owners have a lot of discretion in which way they decide to go. Our job is to educate you at the initial phase.
And I'll say pricing notwithstanding, most of our relationships, most of our engagements fall in one or two categories. There's project based, hey, we just want to get our wills, our trust and our state plan done. We want to get our business succession planning documents in place. We want to put a one time asset protection plan in place. Those are projects, they have a definitive beginning, they have a finite ending. So we can deliver within that period of time. And when we're done, you know, obviously we can certainly keep in touch. But the project is completed and that's more like I said on the project basis. That's a one time fees. There are people who want to work with us on more of a relationship basis and that's going to be. We want an ongoing conversation and we kind of bridge people into. Similar to what if you've ever heard of a family office, this is what a family office offering would be.
And if you haven't heard of it, there are people who are ultra high net worth, maybe $500 million and up and they will typically hire their own lawyer in house, their own accountant in house, their own financial planners in house and other professionals.
We've tried to bring that to a from the Wall street to more of a Main street basis for our business owners. So we provide those services in house and that becomes a relationship model. Sometimes the investments that we manage covers all of that. Sometimes we'll just come up with a subscription price that involves monthly, quarterly, semi annual type meetings itself and try to customize those as well too for something that makes sense for the business owner, the individual, but then also makes sense for us from a business perspective.
[00:50:48] Speaker B: Amazing. Thank you. We are almost at the end. If you have a particular question, please maybe raise your hand.
This is a great opportunity, captive audience here with two amazing professionals.
So if you have a question do let us know.
If not all good, you can hopefully. Neil and Paige, I think you've shared your contact information and maybe people can get in touch with you directly. Maybe you want to speak about that a little bit. Paige, maybe go first.
[00:51:28] Speaker C: Yeah, for sure. I in the chat I have my email is within there I can type it again. So if it's the bottom of the chat fresh, this and my phone number are the best way to reach me.
Well, I guess email for to schedule and then a phone call or zoom call and my website which I will leave in the chat too. Well, it's still being built a bit but I'd say email is the best way to contact me.
[00:52:00] Speaker B: Awesome. And Paige, maybe some final words before we turn it to Neil to do the same thing. Maybe some final words for everyone, pieces of advice just in general in closing.
[00:52:10] Speaker C: Yeah. Thank you. Well first, thank you so much, David. This was really incredible. Neil, it's been an absolute pleasure and an honor to speak Next to you, this was just a beautiful collaboration. So thank you so much, David, for, for being such a great connector.
And I think that last final words is if you move through, you know, whatever you're navigating with curiosity and positivity, you're going to find a solution.
You just have to be open to finding a solution. And it's really just a positive. I can't emphasize how much a positive attitude will change things in the workplace and in life.
So regardless of what side you're, you know, what side you're on, because, you know, I, I see both when, when we move from this place of, of kindness and openness and positivity, everything works out.
It always works out. So I think just those are my, those are my closing words.
[00:53:21] Speaker B: Those are great closing words. We appreciate that face for sure.
Neil. Yeah. Maybe you can talk about people can get in touch with you. I know Ellen already kind of reached out. Great. So you can speak with her. But maybe you can talk about people get in touch with you and some final parting words.
[00:53:38] Speaker A: Yeah, certainly. So my apologies. I think I probably pasted the wrong link. This is what happens when you try to multitask. That's why you.
[00:53:44] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:53:47] Speaker A: I'll try it again and see if this link works in here too. And just to answer Ellen's question directly, a lot of our friends and our referral partners are other attorneys, financial advisors and tax and accountant, tax and tax consultants and accountants. So absolutely, we 100% appreciate the collaborative approach.
So that's just the essence of what we do. So it's absolutely a huge part of it. So thank you for that.
Yeah. Listen, we also acknowledge we're not going to be the perfect fit for everybody and we're totally fine with that, but we're always open to that dialogue and open to that conversation.
This might sound a little bit like I'm pandering itself too, but I, as a small business, now, maybe medium sized business owner, I don't know, it depends on perspective itself.
I don't believe the world is what it is without entrepreneurs and business owners. Like, when you think about everything that we're doing, like we are on a zoom that was founded by an entrepreneur that probably was somebody's idea first. We are using microphones, we are using the Internet, we are using telecommunications. Like nothing starts without business owners. So the fact that somebody is pursuing their passion, the fact that somebody is, has an idea and they want to make it work, fantastic. I think what we have to remember as business owners is as human beings, we all have natural propensities. We have natural strengths. We have natural tendencies. And I'm a big Tony Robbins guy, but he talks about this all the time. You have shareholders, you have true entrepreneurs who are the shareholders. Then you have managers who are really good at managing business. And you have artists who are the people who, like, fall in love with their products. Like, I might be an artist as a lawyer because I really love practicing law. That doesn't make me a strong business owner. It doesn't make me a strong manager. And because I'm not willing to shift from being a lawyer into being a widget salesperson, maybe I'm not a true entrepreneur because I'm really in love with my product and what I do.
I think the magic happens when you align yourself with people who have complementary skill sets and complementary propensities. And that's one of those things that I always caution entrepreneurs against.
Because what's going to happen is ultimately you're going to wind up getting frustrated because the thing that you fell in love with, now you're dealing with payroll. Or you got to call somebody like Paige when you're getting sued or about to sue somebody, or you got to call somebody like David because somebody is really stealing your product and all that sort of stuff too.
If you can get out in front of it and align yourself with the right professionals, you get to pursue your passion with zeal and without sort of. I'm not going to say without fear, because I think the fear is healthy, but you just know you're crossing your T's and dotting your I's. It doesn't have to be us on the call. Certainly, we've all expressed that. We'd be happy to reach out to you guys. I think the most important thing for, frankly, the world and society and for future generations is that the small businesses continue to thrive, become medium businesses, become large businesses, and then get knocked down by other small businesses. So it's. It's a healthy culling of the, of the. It's a healthy cycle circle of life when it comes to business owners. And to the extent that we can help with that, feel free to reach out.
[00:56:42] Speaker B: Awesome. Yes, I agree with everything both of you said.
Thank you, Paige. Thank you, Neil. Thank you everyone for joining. You will all be getting this recording, as will all the. The other 300 registrants. So look out for that next month. Our July 2025 entrepreneurial strategy series is going to be a real fun one.
Myself and about seven other authors recently had a book published called Marketing your invention, Product or journey.
And so we have we're going to feature some of the authors to talk about the, you know, kind of how you market your patent, your trademark. You know, there's all different ways of marketing in the world using podcasts. You market to investors, you market on the radio, you, you market at trade shows, you market yourself, you market on Amazon, all of those bases of marketing that exist in today's world.
We had experts kind of write chapters to a book that came out. So please look out for that. Join us for that.
Everybody. Enjoy the first few days of summer. Thank you again for coming out. Thank you, Neil. Thank you, Paige and everyone. Be in touch with each other if you need something, if there's anything that wasn't covered or you have a particular question that you want to ask directly of me, Neil or Paige, you have our contact information.
